Monday, January 09, 2006

CPRR locomotive "Antelope"

From: ChBat2@aol.com

... I'm considering scratchbuilding a S scale model [of the CPRR locomotive Antelope], anyone I could contact to obtain more info on this locomotive? Driver size would help in scaling dimensions. ...

—Chip Bates

10 Comments:

Blogger CPRR Discussion Group said...

From: bobpec@earthlink.net

Diebert and Strapac's SP Steam Loco Compendium lists the driver size of the Antelope (#29, McKay & Aldus, February 1867) as sixty inches with 16 by 24 inch cylinders.

—Bob Pecotich

1/09/2006 8:25 PM  
Blogger CPRR Discussion Group said...

See: Model live Steam Engine Construction

1/09/2006 9:02 PM  
Blogger CPRR Discussion Group said...

From: "Jim Wilke" woodburner@earthlink.net

The Central Pacific Railroad in its first full year of operation as a transcontinental line was a colorful road. If we could go back in time, we might have ben able to see something like these engines, simmering in the sun, glowing in gold leaf and color, loaded up with cordwood for their day's run on the Sierras.

Here is a colorized view of the Rogers-built Buffalo No. 82 at Rocklin Roundhouse in 1870. The colors are accurate to the engine and show the elaborate and splendid tatste of the time. This reconstruction uses green for the long panels on the tender, although ultramarine blue may also have been used for the panels, particularly as the engine is fitted with a column bell stand, used on the better classes of Rogers engines.

The levels of finish, from brass cylinders, steam dome and boiler bands, to the walnut "house," or cab, are accurate in accordance with the Rogers builder's specifications for this locomotive. All in all, it was a formidable, powerful and impressive machine.

The colors of the Schenectady engine in the background are also accurate in accordance with known information for one of these locomotives, Jupiter No. 60, and represent the best passenger style of the Schenectady Locomotive Works.

—Jim Wilke

1/10/2006 1:04 PM  
Blogger CPRR Discussion Group said...

From: "Wendell Huffman" wendellhuffman@hotmail.com

Antelope CP 29 was one of eight identical McKay & Aldus locomotives delivered to the Central Pacific: 28, 29, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, as well as eight additional locomotives ordered but not delivered. They had 24" stroke and 60" drivers.

—Wendell

1/10/2006 1:29 PM  
Blogger CPRR Discussion Group said...

From: KyleWyatt@aol.com

The Central Pacific Antelope and its McKay & Aldus sisters were very similar to Mason locomotives of the period, but I'm not sure I'd characterize them as "identical." Specifically the Antelope was built with 60-inch drivers, and 16 x 24 inch cylinders, weighing 62,100 lbs. For comparison, the CP Atlantic, built by Mason, had 60-inch drivers, and 15 x 22 inch cylinders, weighing 58,000 lbs. ...

Kyle (Ky) Wyatt
Curator of History & Technology
California State Railroad Museum

1/10/2006 4:18 PM  
Blogger CPRR Discussion Group said...

From: "Jim Wilke" woodburner@earthlink.net

They would be identical in terms of basic plan, which allows variations in size and weight. The "plan" was generally understood by 19th century builders to represent a specific design or layout of engine, and it was assumed wheels, cylinders and other dimensions would adjust accordingly to the customer's requirements. Mason's plan was significantly different from Rogers, Norris or Danforth Cooke, even in engines with identical weights, cylinder and wheel sizes.

McKay & Aldus adheres to Mason's plan in every respect, even the distinctive shape of curve to the tender flange. Rhode Island and Taunton also followed Mason's plan, as did the B&O shops under Tyson, all building Distinctive Mason style machines. After 1870 nearly every locomotive builder had adopted Mason's plan for standard eight wheel engines, with minor vernacular variations, indicating that it was the most influential basic locomotive design of the mid to late 19th century.

The extensive commentary in the late 19th century trade press supports this – you will find glowing remarks about Mason engines, even old ones, which simply do not exist for other builders. A typical comment from the 1890's was that apart from their size, the old Masons were every bit as modern as new engines. Mason may not have established the reforms of spread trucks, or level cylinders, but he put them in the right place.

—Jim

1/10/2006 5:03 PM  
Blogger CPRR Discussion Group said...

From: KyleWyatt@aol.com

I don't disagree with Jim overall, but from a scale modeling perspective, the devil is in the details. And there are detail differences between Mason and McKay & Aldus. And of course Mason's own details tended to change over time (as did McKay & Aldus').

Yes, the CP Atlantic is a size smaller than the Antelope. The California Pacific received some Masons with 60 inch drivers, 16 x 24 cylinders, weighing 61,000 lbs in 1870-71. These would be pretty comparable in size to the McKay & Aldus-built Antilope, but with newer details. (CalP also received some freight engines from Mason in 1870-71 with wagon top boilers instead of straight boilers like the engines we are discussing.)

Speaking of Central Pacific Masons, the 4-6-0s that CP received from Mason (starting with the Conness) were basically the same as the engines built by Mason for the Lehigh Valley. Four of these later were sold to the Algoma Central. Attached are a couple of diagrams scanned form an Algoma Central book of the engines (the scans received second hand by me a while back).

Diagram 1
Diagram 2

—Kyle

1/10/2006 5:41 PM  
Blogger CPRR Discussion Group said...

From: "John Haines" dal455@msn.com

Locomotive No. 29. Built by McKay & Aldus, 2-1867. Date in service, 8-14-68. Driver diameter, 60 Inches. Cylinders, 16 x 24.

—John Haines

1/10/2006 6:06 PM  
Blogger CPRR Discussion Group said...

From: "Jim Wilke" woodburner@earthlink.net

Kyle is correct. Mason's plan would be helpful to understand the entire design, while the specific details of size, etc., can only be gained by images of Antelope and similar McKay & Aldus engines.

—Jim

1/11/2006 10:22 AM  
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