Across Donner Pass in 1845 - Frémont's 3rd expeditionary entry into California by the Truckee/Donner Pass route
I have recently finished a long look at John Charles Frémont's 1845 3rd exped entry into CA by the Truckee/Donner Pass route using Frémont's narrative accounts and determined coordinates.
It is very interesting, because the Frémont's descent was not along the emigrant wagon route down the Bear River, but rather a ridge route that anticipated the CPRR route and the road built to build that RR, today's I-80.
It is ironic that on completion of his privately-funded 1854 38th parallel RR survey, Frémont outright rejected the feasibility of crossing the Sierra at that latitude and suggested turning south to near Walker Pass, crossing there to the San Joaquin Valley, and then north to SF.
I don't think anyone has previously looked at that '45 route.
Here I have it mapped by narrative and determined coordinates:
—Bob Graham, Sacramento
posted from CPRR Discussion Group at 12:22 PM
10 Comments:
From: "Wendell Huffman" wendellhuffman@hotmail.com
You conclude " . . .Frémont outright rejected the feasibility of crossing the Sierra at that latitude and suggested turning south to near Walker Pass, crossing there to the San Joaquin Valley, and then north to SF."
What is your understanding of the point from which Fremont expected the railroad would turn south (as of his 1845 frame of mind)? I know Fremond crossed from Salt Lake to the Sierra via the Humboldt in 1845, but do you find any evidence that he expected the railroad to run that way?
My understanding is that by 1854 Fremont preferred Benton's line (presumably based on Fremont's advice), crossing the Rockies at Cochatopa and running toward the south end of the Sierra via the Spanish Trail. It is also my understanding that Walker's Pass and Tehachapi Pass were generally confused in the literature, and that any Fremont reference to Walker's Pass should be taken to refer to Tehachapi, not modern Walker's. This is the general route taken by Beale and Fremont in 1853-4.
While one might suppose Warner's 1849 expedition presumed a railroad directly across the Great Basin (from Warner's Pass), I have not otherwise run across any serious suggestion of a railroad crossing the central Great Basin until Beckwith's survey of 1854. Even Stansbury and Gunnison presumed the proper route west of the Mormon settlements was southwest along the Spanish Trail, and Gunnison wasn't even supposed to get west from Mountain Meadows since the Spanish Trail route beyond that was so well known. Until Beckwith verified the practicality of Nobles's pass, the central Sierra were considered such a barrier as to preclude utilizing the Humboldt.
—Wendell
From: "Wendell Huffman" wendellhuffman@hotmail.com
Rereading your initial post, I see that your statement about "turning south" is based on his 1854 position. That corresponds with my understanding. Did he mention railroad route at all in the 1845 report?
It is interesting that he followed the ridge in 1845.
—Wendell
From: "Bob Graham" bobgraham@longcamp.com
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: "Wendell Huffman" wendellhuffman@hotmail.com
>
> You conclude " . . .Frémont outright rejected the feasibility of
> crossing the
> Sierra at that latitude and suggested turning south to near
> Walker Pass, crossing there to the San Joaquin Valley, and then
> north to SF."
That was his conclusion at the end of the 1854 survey, but based solely on his Sierra experience of Feb '44 (Carson Pass) and Dec. 1845 (Donner Pass)--not from any inspection in 1854.
> What is your understanding of the point from which Fremont expected
> the railroad would turn south (as of his 1845 frame of mind)? I know
> Fremond crossed from Salt Lake to the Sierra via the Humboldt in
> 1845, but do you find any evidence that he expected the railroad to
> run that way?
In 1845, I really doubt he was considering a RR route.
But in '45 he also crossed central NV--across the desert from Salt Lake to Pilot Pk and then to Walker Lake--first travel of the route that Hastings backtracked and called the Hastings Cut-off.
But again, if F was thinking RR, he never said so.
When he came across central NV that year, the bulk of his exped took the Humboldt route. The rendezvous was to be Walker Lake. There they divided again, F and 15 men across Donner Pass to Sutter's, and the rest of the party, under Talbot, south to enter the San Jouquin over Walker Pass (guided by Joe Walker).
Again, snow was the fear--the size of the exped was too large to risk the northern Sierra crossing in December.
>
> My understanding is that by 1854 Fremont preferred Benton's line
> (presumably based on Fremont's advice), crossing the Rockies at
> Cochatopa and running toward the south end of the Sierra via the
> Spanish Trail. It is also my understanding that Walker's Pass and
> Tehachapi Pass were generally confused in the literature, and that
> any Fremont reference to Walker's Pass should be taken to refer to
> Tehachapi, not modern Walker's. This is the general route taken by
> Beale and Fremont in 1853-4.
>
> While one might suppose Warner's 1849 expedition presumed a railroad
> directly across the Great Basin (from Warner's Pass), I have not
> otherwise run across any serious suggestion of a railroad crossing
> the central Great Basin until Beckwith's survey of 1854. Even
> Stansbury and Gunnison presumed the proper route west of the Mormon
> settlements was southwest along the Spanish Trail, and Gunnison
> wasn't even supposed to get west from Mountain Meadows since the
> Spanish Trail route beyond that was so well known. Until Beckwith
> verified the practicality of Nobles's pass, the central Sierra were
> considered such a barrier as to preclude utilizing the Humboldt.
>
> Wendell
From: "Bob Graham" bobgraham@longcamp.com
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: "Wendell Huffman" wendellhuffman@hotmail.com
>
> You conclude " . . .Frémont outright rejected the feasibility of
> crossing the
> Sierra at that latitude and suggested turning south to near
> Walker Pass, crossing there to the San Joaquin Valley, and then
> north to SF."
That was his conclusion at the end of the 1854 survey, but based solely on his Sierra experience of Feb '44 (Carson Pass) and Dec. 1845 (Donner Pass)--not from any inspection in 1854.
> What is your understanding of the point from which Fremont expected
> the railroad would turn south (as of his 1845 frame of mind)? I know
> Fremond crossed from Salt Lake to the Sierra via the Humboldt in
> 1845, but do you find any evidence that he expected the railroad to
> run that way?
In 1845, I really doubt he was considering a RR route.
But in '45 he also crossed central NV--across the desert from Salt Lake to Pilot Pk and then to Walker Lake--first travel of the route that Hastings backtracked and called the Hastings Cut-off.
But again, if F was thinking RR, he never said so.
When he came across central NV that year, the bulk of his exped took the Humboldt route. The rendezvous was to be Walker Lake. There they divided again, F and 15 men across Donner Pass to Sutter's, and the rest of the party, under Talbot, south to enter the San Jouquin over Walker Pass (guided by Joe Walker).
Again, snow was the fear--the size of the exped was too large to risk the northern Sierra crossing in December.
From: "Bob Graham" bobgraham@longcamp.com
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: "Wendell Huffman" wendellhuffman@hotmail.com
>
> Rereading your initial post, I see that your statement about
> "turning south" is based on his 1854 position. That corresponds with
> my understanding. Did he mention railroad route at all in the 1845
> report?
He did not.
> It is interesting that he followed the ridge in 1845.
I believe because he thought it a faster way down--avoiding the canyon of the S Yuba and Bear. After the experience at Carson Pass in Feb '44, he was concerned about a snow storm. In snow conditions, he (as of 2nd exped, always used ridge routes to avoid drifted snow. Actually, he didn't know the S. Yuba was there at all--probably assumed (from his vantage) that the two rivers were one.
From: "Bob Graham" bobgraham@longcamp.com
> You conclude " . . .Frémont outright rejected the feasibility of crossing the Sierra at that latitude and suggested turning south to near Walker Pass, crossing there to the San Joaquin Valley, and then north to SF."
> What is your understanding of the point from which Fremont expected the railroad would turn south (as of his 1845 frame of mind)? I know Fremond crossed from Salt Lake to the Sierra via the Humboldt in 1845, but do you find any evidence that he expected the railroad to run that way?
This was F's exploring route across the Basin in '45.
The bulk of the party went via the Humboldt route.
[See map above.]
The rendezvous was at Walker L before dividing again.
> My understanding is that by 1854 Fremont preferred Benton's line (presumably based on Fremont's advice), crossing the Rockies at Cochatopa and running toward the south end of the Sierra via the Spanish Trail. It is also my understanding that Walker's Pass and Tehachapi Pass were generally confused in the literature, and that any Fremont reference to Walker's Pass should be taken to refer to Tehachapi, not modern Walker's. This is the general route taken by Beale and Fremont in 1853-4.
The names of these passes were often confused. In '44 F exited via Oak Cr. Pass (but called it Walker's), just west of what is today called Walker Pass. I believe he had also used Tehachapi, but cannot recall on what trip.
On the 1850 version of the 1848 map the added route of F's entry into the San Joaquin Valley from San Juan is shown to be Panoche Pass, but he has it labeled "Pacheco's Pass."
The "Letter of John C. Frémont to the Editors of the National Intelligencer, communicating general results of a recent winter expedition across the Rocky Mountains, for the survey of a route for a railroad to the Pacific Senate, 33d Congress, 1st Session, Misc. Doc. No. 67 Washington, June 13, 1854" is only a 7 page letter, which states,
"The above results embody general impressions made upon my mind during this journey...A fuller account hereafter will comprehend detailed descriptions of the country, with their absolute and relative elevations, and show the ground upon which the conclusions were based."
Obviously, congress was not interested, and no fuller report was made.
This same situation occurred after the 3rd exped 1845-47: the Geographical Memoir Upon Upper California that accompanied the 1848 Frémont--Preuss was to have been a preview of a full report of that 3rd exped, but the requested funds for that report were never appropriated.
The 1886 Memoirs of My Life would have covered the ground in Vol. 2, but due to the great expense of Vol. 1, and poor sales, Vol. 2 was never published.
It may exist in MS in the Lib. of Congress.
As to whether F was thinking RR when he crossed via Donner Summit in '45, I don't think we can say.
I believe his ridge route descent along the N Fk of the American (as opposed to emigrant route) was taken as being a faster way down to avoid the possibility (in December) of a storm catching them.
Once he reached the lower elevations the rate of travel slowed to recruit the animals.
—Bob
From: "Bob Graham" bobgraham@longcamp.com
> You conclude " . . .Frémont outright rejected the feasibility of crossing the Sierra at that latitude and suggested turning south to near Walker Pass, crossing there to the San Joaquin Valley, and then north to SF."
> What is your understanding of the point from which Fremont expected the railroad would turn south (as of his 1845 frame of mind)? I know Fremond crossed from Salt Lake to the Sierra via the Humboldt in 1845, but do you find any evidence that he expected the railroad to run that way?
This was F's exploring route across the Basin in '45.
The bulk of the party went via the Humboldt route.
[See map above.]
The rendezvous was at Walker L before dividing again.
> My understanding is that by 1854 Fremont preferred Benton's line (presumably based on Fremont's advice), crossing the Rockies at Cochatopa and running toward the south end of the Sierra via the Spanish Trail. It is also my understanding that Walker's Pass and Tehachapi Pass were generally confused in the literature, and that any Fremont reference to Walker's Pass should be taken to refer to Tehachapi, not modern Walker's. This is the general route taken by Beale and Fremont in 1853-4.
The names of these passes were often confused. In '44 F exited via Oak Cr. Pass (but called it Walker's), just west of what is today called Walker Pass. I believe he had also used Tehachapi, but cannot recall on what trip.
{continued below]
On the 1850 version of the 1848 map the added route of F's entry into the San Joaquin Valley from San Juan is shown to be Panoche Pass, but he has it labeled "Pacheco's Pass."
The "Letter of John C. Frémont to the Editors of the National Intelligencer, communicating general results of a recent winter expedition across the Rocky Mountains, for the survey of a route for a railroad to the Pacific Senate, 33d Congress, 1st Session, Misc. Doc. No. 67 Washington, June 13, 1854" is only a 7 page letter, which states,
"The above results embody general impressions made upon my mind during this journey...A fuller account hereafter will comprehend detailed descriptions of the country, with their absolute and relative elevations, and show the ground upon which the conclusions were based."
Obviously, congress was not interested, and no fuller report was made.
This same situation occurred after the 3rd exped 1845-47: the Geographical Memoir Upon Upper California that accompanied the 1848 Frémont--Preuss was to have been a preview of a full report of that 3rd exped, but the requested funds for that report were never appropriated.
The 1886 Memoirs of My Life would have covered the ground in Vol. 2, but due to the great expense of Vol. 1, and poor sales, Vol. 2 was never published.
It may exist in MS in the Lib. of Congress.
As to whether F was thinking RR when he crossed via Donner Summit in '45, I don't think we can say.
I believe his ridge route descent along the N Fk of the American (as opposed to emigrant route) was taken as being a faster way down to avoid the possibility (in December) of a storm catching them.
Once he reached the lower elevations the rate of travel slowed to recruit the animals.
—Bob
From: Wendell Huffman
I really appreciate your pointing out that Fremont had gone down the ridge (I-80/CPRR route). I think that very interesting and I did not know it.
As we all "know", that ridge route was the key to the CPRR's utilization of Donner
Pass. The fact that Judah first went to Georgetown and then to Nevada City before visiting Dutch Flat--on the ridge--in his search for a route across the Sierra, strongly suggests that did not set out looking for that ridge. Rather, he did not recognized the importance of the ridge until "discovering" it. It also suggests the Judah was oblivious of Fremont's route. I think it understandable that the emigrants would have dropped off the ridge into Bear Valley. From the Gap, Bear Valley is too inviting, and they had livestock that needed feed and water.
—Wendell
From: "Bob Graham" bobgraham@longcamp.com
... What follows anticipates the route of the CPRR, but I thought you might find it of interest.
It is work I did a couple of years ago on the first 16 people to travel the route of the CPRR between Donner Pass and Sutter's Fort in December 1845.
Most had assumed that this route followed the emigrant route down into the S Yuba and Bear Rivers, but it was a ridge route along the North Fork of the American [River] all the way down.
—Bob Graham, Sacramento
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