Central Pacific Railroad Photographic History Museum
Are some of the engineering drawings for constructing the Jupiter and No. 119 available?
—Jules Jacquin
posted from CPRR Discussion Group at 5:58 PM
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See the frequently asked question about locomotive drawings.
There are few if any historic drawings relating to the Central Pacific "Jupiter" and the Union Pacific #119. The O'Connor engineering drawings produced while building the replicas are available form the National Park Service at Promontory - as jpgs on a CD or DVD I think. Note O'Connor made some changes from the original, such as single piece cast cylinders instead of 3-part. There are other bits and pieces around.
Kyle K. Wyatt
Curator of History & Technology
California State Railroad Museum
111 "I" Street
Sacramento, CA 95814
My work address is: kwyatt@parks.ca.gov
My personal address is: kylewyatt@aol.com
From: Bob_Spude@nps.gov
Roy Appleman's report on the Jupiter and 119 is in the Technical Information Library of the NPS in Denver. You'll need to set up a password and contact e-mail to get in. The Appleman report on the Promontory locomotives is scanned. It includes photographs and period drawings of representative locomotives in quite a bit of detail. Easiest way to find the report is to use "locomotive Jupiter" as the entry on the search page.
—Bob
Bob Spude – Historian – Cultural Resources Management – National Park Service – Intermountain Region – 505.988.6770 Voice – 505.988.6876 Fax
The National Park Service cares for special places saved by the American people so that all may experience our heritage.
From: Bob_Spude@nps.gov
Appleman report ... takes awhile to download.
—Bob
Bob Spude – Historian – Cultural Resources Management – National Park Service – Intermountain Region – 505.988.6770 Voice – 505.988.6876 Fax
The National Park Service cares for special places saved by the American people so that all may experience our heritage.
From: Bob_Spude@nps.gov
Looks like [the website for the Technical Information Library of the NPS in Denver] is an internal network. ...
—Bob
The complete Appleman report with fabulous locomotive diagrams in the appendices is now online at the CPRR Museum, courtesy of Robert L. Spude, Ph.D., Historian, National Park Service:
"UP Locomotive #119 & CP #60, Jupiter at Promontory Summit, Utah, May 10, 1869." by Roy E. Appleman, National Park Service Report, 1966.
From: "Wendell Huffman" wendellhuffman@hotmail.com
Very nice.
A comment in response to the hand-written note on the Joslyn drawing that the stack as drawn doesn't match the proportions in the photos: Few (if any) researchers more than a decade ago realized that "Jupiter" (and its sisters) was provided with a CP-built stack upon setup in Sacramento. Accordingly, it is possible that the discrepency between drawn stack and photos is based on Joslyn or the note-writer relying on photos of Schenectady vs. CP stacks. At this point I would not venture whether the drawing is a CP or a Schenectady stack (or "c: none of the above").
—Wendell
From: Bob_Spude@nps.gov
Good point. A caveat should be made about the Appleman report since it is 40 years old. Much new information is available, and corrections as you note are needed. But it did serve its purpose. The report was prepared to find out if there was enough information available to even consider building replicas of locomotives 119 and the Jupiter. The report helped decision makers conclude in the affirmitive.
—Bob
From: "Christian Englert" c.englert@freenet.de
Subject: Information about Jupiter and # 119
As an enthusiast for old American Steam Engines I'm planning to build the "Jupiter" and "# 119" for my G-Gauge garden layout. I've found some nice pictures with lots of details and even the colours for both engines, but I can't find any information about the diameter of the drive wheels, about the length of the engines, their complete length with the tender, and so on. Maybe you can help me with some information.
Best regards from Germany,
—Christian Englert
See the information and links above, especially the Appleman report.
Denver Service Center
FISCAL YEAR 2003 ANNUAL REPORT
National Park Service
United States Department of the Interior
"The Technical Information Center also created a saleable CD-ROM of Golden Spike National Historic Site train drawings in cooperation with the park’s museum association. The drawings include elevations of the Jupiter and 119 trains. The ability to digitize the drawings and offer them economically on CD takes advantage of new technology in making historical information available to the public."
From: hees@rcn.com
Subject: Information about Jupiter and #119
The National Park Service now sells a 2 CD set of the plans used to build the two replica locomotives at the gift shop at Golden Spike National Monument. It includes something like 300 pdf files. I don't see it listed on their website, but I am sure it can be had via mail order. The cost was about $30.00.
—Randy Hees
Yes, the bookstore sells a 2 CD set that includes the plans for the Jupiter and No. 119. the cost is $24.95 and the contact to purchase, would be Julie Mann-Cherry, our bookstore manager. Her email is Julie_Mann-Cherry@partner.nps.gov and her phone number is 435-471-2209 Ext. 22
Jennifer L. Clemetson
Visitor Use Assistant
Golden Spike NHS
From: Joel Johnson, O'Connor Engineering
Re: Jupiter and 119 Locomotive drawings
... The drawings that OConnor Engineering did for the Jupiter and #119 locomotives were under contract with the National Park Service, as was their construction. ... All of the drawings were sent to Utah along with the locomotives. The drawings were supposed to be stored in a very safe environment to preserve them. They were making blue prints for a fee at one time, but were not aware that they were available with PDFs. ...
As a matter of interest, 8 of us made those drawings in about 1.5 years all by the old drafting method (not CAD). The names are in the title block. As I recall they are; Chad O'Connor; John Healy, Morrie Houser, Fred Haughton; Walter Steinmayr; Ron Moss, Joel Johnson and Pat Garden.
Each week, Jerry Best (author of Iron Horses to Promontory) would come in and review the work to make sure that it was correct. Jerry was contracted by the National Park Service to act as their "expert" and to some degree "quality control."
There are so many interesting stories that go along with these locomotives.
Did you know that we made a video of the reconstruction of the two locomotives that are at Promontory today? It is available through Pentrax and is called something like the Jupiter and #119 Reconstruction. For a while it was sold with "Chadwell O'Connor, a steam driven man."
I hope that this helps.
All the best,
—Joel
My father and I just visited the GSHS last week, and it was really well done. The two CD set was about $30.00 as I remember, but they said it contained about 700 drawings. Another commentary I read said that there were over 800 drawings originally produced in order to build the replicas. We are looking for a copy of the video "Chad O'Conner, A Steam Driven Man" but it appears to be out of print. My father worked for Chad O'Conner while in Tool Design at Douglas Aircraft during the war, and they rode to work together for awhile when he lived on the next block over from us.
See: Chad O'Conner: A Steam Driven Man, which is a discontinued video.
Video actually is still available from Pentrex.
From: "WILLIAM C. MIKKELSEN" wmikkelsen@gmail.com
Subject: Chad O'Connor videotape
Thank you for the information. I ordered it for my father, who used to work with Mr. O'Conner.
—Bill Mikkelsen
From: "Michael" gmike@suddenlink.net
This is the most outstanding web site I have ever visited – been on the internet since it first started.
I am a retired machinist and would like to build a scale model of the Jupiter. What kind of formats might I purchase of the detailed drawings. Please advise of the options and the cost. I would like to support your efforts in continuing this wonderful web site. My only interest is high quality detail drawings so I may build a model.
—Mike
See the above discussion.
From: "Michael" gmike@suddenlink.net
Thanks for the rapid response. I will order the CD collection tomorrow [from the Golden Spike National Historic Site, Promontory, Utah bookstore] with the open of business. Please keep up the good work and I will send others to your web site. Thanks.
—Michael
The O'Connor drawings for Jupiter and No 119 can be found here:
http://ibls.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Promontory_locomotives
The O'Connor Engineering Promontory Locomotive Project Engineering Drawings for the CPRR Jupiter and UPRR #119 replica locomotives have been provided courtesy of the International Brotherhood of Live Steamers as two huge pdf files:
Promontory Locomotive Project, Sheets 1-281 and
Promontory Locomotive Project, Sheets 282-786.
Where can I find schematics for the Jupiter locomotive?
See the links to the Promontory Locomotive Project Sheets (the O'Connor engineering locomotive drawings), above.
From: "Laura Hales" laura@jig.space
I’m Laura Hales, I work at Jig Space.
Were currently trying to find information about the Union Pacific no 119.
We're going to feature that train model in our augmented reality app and we want the replica to have as much working detail as possible. One area we’re struggling with is the Johnson Bar. We know how this works on other train models but haven’t been able to find information about exactly where its fixed onto the 119 or how it interlocks with its pistons.
If you could provide us with any information relating to this it would be very helpful.
—Laura Hales
For UP #119 details, see the 336 page Appleman report pdf,
and the Engineering drawings for the National Park Service replica Jupiter and No. 119 Locomotives.
Click on the two links for of the O'Connor Engineering Promontory Locomotive Project Engineering Drawings pdf's (very large files) for the CPRR Jupiter and UPRR #119 replica locomotives:
"Promontory Locomotive Project, Sheets 1-281" and
"Promontory Locomotive Project, Sheets 282-786."
You may need to zoom in using your pdf viewer to see the large engineering drawings clearly.
From: "Laura Jane" laura@jig.space
Thank you for your help. The detail of these I've found exactly what I was looking for.
From: "Mark L. Stonbraker" mstonbraker@highspire.org
Re: Governor Stanford 4-4-0 Locomotive measured drawings
Are you aware of any measured drawings of the Norris built Governor Stanford 4-4-0 locomotive? ...
—Mark L. Stonbraker
Also see photo of Jupiter locomotive with Chinese.
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